[Shortstuff60]

On Darren's site it has a link were you can click on the 2 dvd's but I had to get off
line before I could check it out further ...

[AndyLGR]

Shortstuff60 wrote:

On Darren's site it has a link were you can click on the 2 dvd's but I had to get off line before I could check it out further ...

Its just a note referencing the fact that this show was filmed from the audience.

[Shortstuff60]

ok then why is the link clickable? I am gonna go check it out

[Shortstuff60]

TODD CAME THROUGH AND SENT ME COPY + A FREE 2002 DEF LEPPARD
BOSTON DVD for the long wait I had ...wasnt that nice after all he put me and
others through !

[AndyLGR]

Shortstuff60 wrote:

TODD CAME THROUGH AND SENT ME COPY + A FREE 2002 DEF LEPPARD BOSTON DVD for the long wait I had ...wasnt that nice after all he put me and others through !

Nice one.

For your information he was put under a lot pressure by some people to make sure the San Diego dvd got sent out.

[ilove2rock]

Glad you go your show Shortstuff.... I would still NEVER EVER trust this guy... Its not the first time he has done this and it wont be the last.....

[Shortstuff60]

ilove2rock wrote:

Glad you go your show Shortstuff.... I would still NEVER EVER trust this guy... Its not the first time he has done this and it wont be the last.....

Thanks I will certaninly do my business with someone a little more reputable

[John]

It's so hard to find reputable bootleggers these days. Who'd have guessed it?

- John...

[ilove2rock]

Did anyone else pay for this show??? People are still waiting for their copy...

[AndyLGR]

John wrote:

It's so hard to find reputable bootleggers these days. Who'd have guessed it? - John...

Thats a joke right?

[killerqueen]

Shortstuff60 wrote:

ilove2rock wrote: Glad you go your show Shortstuff.... I would still NEVER EVER trust this guy... Its not the first time he has done this and it wont be the last..... Thanks I will certaninly do my business with someone a little more reputable

The best justice would be to make copies of this guy's bootleg and provide for a few people on this board, who in turn would do the same thing for others. That way, this nimrod wouldn't make any more money off the band. Take money out of HIS pocket for a change...beat him at his own game.

I think you could guarantee that of the two evils, the band would much prefer a bootleg be freely traded among their fans as opposed to someone selling their product and making money off of them.

[SavageSpirit]

killerqueen wrote:

Shortstuff60 wrote: ilove2rock wrote: Glad you go your show Shortstuff.... I would still NEVER EVER trust this guy... Its not the first time he has done this and it wont be the last..... Thanks I will certaninly do my business with someone a little more reputable The best justice would be to make copies of this guy's bootleg and provide for a few people on this board, who in turn would do the same thing for others. That way, this nimrod wouldn't make any more money off the band. Take money out of HIS pocket for a change...beat him at his own game. I think you could guarantee that of the two evils, the band would much prefer a bootleg be freely traded among their fans as opposed to someone selling their product and making money off of them.

Great idea! Beat the jerk at his own game!!

[AndyLGR]

killerqueen wrote:

The best justice would be to make copies of this guy's bootleg and provide for a few people on this board, who in turn would do the same thing for others. That way, this nimrod wouldn't make any more money off the band. Take money out of HIS pocket for a change...beat him at his own game. I think you could guarantee that of the two evils, the band would much prefer a bootleg be freely traded among their fans as opposed to someone selling their product and making money off of them.

.......which is what normally happens amongst the decent traders when someone decides to sell bootlegs. The idea is to flood the place with free ones and so stop sellers as much as possible.

[Shortstuff60]

If only I had a way to make copies right now .... I would certainly make tons and
give them out ! I was lucky and got my copy , by the way the only reason I really
wanted THIS show was because it was my last show in San Diego ...

[John]

So -- people are suggesting that the way to stop the pirates is to become pirates themselves?

Remember that infringement is infringement -- regardless of if any money is exchanged. Don't get me wrong -- people can sit and debate all day about whether or not it is morally or ethically better to pirate things and not make any money -- but that really isn't the point. If something is illegal, then it is illegal -- giving away infringing material instead of selling it does not make it legal.

So, in my opinion, the "flood the market with free copies to stop the evil pirates" idea just doesn't cut it.

Are you going to do the same thing when you find out that some pirate is selling MP3s of some band's latest album? Do you think that the "answer" to that is to give away as many illegal copies of the same album yourself so that the pirate stops making money? I don't see how that makes it less of an illegal activity nor a benefit for the original band.

But, whatever. I agree it isn't exactly the same -- but this idea of fighting piracy by pirating just seems really odd to me. I write software for a living -- I certainly hope that no one gets the idea that the best way to "help" me is to give away as much as my software for free as they can so that no pirates can sell it.

- John...

[John]

AndyLGR wrote:

John wrote: It's so hard to find reputable bootleggers these days. Who'd have guessed it? - John... Thats a joke right?

Yes, of course it was a joke. I was being sarcastic because someone was upset because their bootleg supplier wasn't very reputable. I don't know what people expect when they deal with pirates exactly. It's like saying that you need to find a more "reputable thief." Sorry, but that's a bit of an oxymoron, isn't it?

- John...

[AndyLGR]

John wrote:

AndyLGR wrote: John wrote: It's so hard to find reputable bootleggers these days. Who'd have guessed it? - John... Thats a joke right? Yes, of course it was a joke. I was being sarcastic because someone was upset because their bootleg supplier wasn't very reputable. I don't know what people expect when they deal with pirates exactly. It's like saying that you need to find a more "reputable thief." Sorry, but that's a bit of an oxymoron, isn't it? - John...

Traders / bootleggers / tapers like the one who was selling this show are actually very rare. in that he has a reputation for ripping people off.

Yet there are many companies, especially in Japan that make a good living out of it and in the main the quality is pretty good.

I tape shows and trade them out, but dont consider myself a thief.

The probelm is that many people who dont know any Lep traders have no idea of where to go to get the shows they want and could end up with people like the guy who was selling this gig.

[killerqueen]

John wrote:

So -- people are suggesting that the way to stop the pirates is to become pirates themselves? Are you going to do the same thing when you find out that some pirate is selling MP3s of some band's latest album? Do you think that the "answer" to that is to give away as many illegal copies of the same album yourself so that the pirate stops making money? I don't see how that makes it less of an illegal activity nor a benefit for the original band. - John...

I don't care for bootlegs, personally. I won't debate the legality because that wasn't my point, and there's no point in debating the morality of bootlegs, especially since Joe Elliott is an avid collector of bootlegs himself. However, your comparison isn't valid because this item is not an album (or piece of software) that is available to be purchased in the first place, so it's not quite the same thing. It would be very different if the band sold live cd's or dvd's after every show (like some bands do). I know you were just trying to make a point, but in this case it doesn't work.

Yes, I still say to those on this board who want this bootleg (or any other) that badly: rather than bidding and giving Todd more money, make a deal with the previous purchaser to obtain a copy of theirs. It's not so different from youtube, where people post clips of shows from their cameras...they aren't selling those clips, they're just sharing with others thru a medium. No one makes money off the band that way either.

[John]

Agreed -- it isn't exactly the same thing -- but the point I was trying to make was that the idea of flooding the market so that the pirates don't make any money really isn't a good solution -- and I stand by that.

Also, people can argue that Joe collects bootlegs -- but I would easily argue that one of the reasons we have such trouble with cameras at shows is because of things like this. They don't want people recording the entire show like this -- and doing so and the sharing of bootlegs that comes from that -- is what leads to stronger restrictions against ALL cameras at shows.

So, sure, it's fun to have a copy of a show you were at -- but, in the long run, it does many more people harm than good, I think. I think this sort of thing is a significant contributor to the increased restrictions on cameras and such over the past years.

- John...

[Dale Cooper]

Def leppard is not a good example in this case but still..................as long as there are people out there who wont buy an official live release of a band because they already have a very good sounding illegal live recording, bootlegs harm sales and should be prohibited.

it's not up to *us* to say its okay to sell or trade bootlegs. the rights of the recordings lie in the *artists* hands, and they are the only ones who have a right to decide what should happen to their music.

some bands allow concert taping and trading. for them it's ok to trade bootlegs. but, Def LEppard is not one of those bands.